A British primary school teacher in Sudan is facing 40 lashes and up to six months in prison after allowing her pupils to name a teddy bear after the prophet Mohammed.Three words: This is ridiculous.
Colleagues of Gillian Gibbons, 54, claim she made an "innocent mistake" by allowing the class of seven year-olds to choose the name. But she has been accused of insulting Islam’s holiest prophet, arrested and imprisoned.
Her actions have sparked protests in Sudan and have forced the school to close until January for fear of reprisals.
Full story
How on earth would a British teacher know that naming the teddy bear Mohammed would insult our prophet, especially that 20 out of the 23 children CHOSE to name the teddy bear Mohammed and she wasn't the one naming it?
Why are they assuming that the teddy bear was named after our prophet (PBUH)?
This is really stupid! And they closed down the school till January just because of this! oh my god.. I really can't believe this.
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132 comments:
Unbeliveable. And totally outrageous. So these cute seven year old kiddies miss out on thier education because they voted to name a teddy bear after the Prophet mohammed (PBUH) and the teacher gets lashed...
Waaaaay to go. More excellent PR for Islam, and the forward thinking, rational, muslim community.
SERIOUSLYYYY!!
this is absuuuuuuuuuuuurd!!!!
Her ignorance about Islam costed her, God help her.
Now all the thoughts about coming back to Arabian or Islamic country will be none and she will create anti-Islamic movements.
Stupid from both sides really.
-The teacher should know this would provoke anger among Muslims.
-And the there Muslims are overreacting.
I think something has to be done, but lashes?! - I'm thinking something like teaching her to respect the culture she's living in.
I imagine how the Prophet peace be upon him would feel when he sees how narrow minded the Muslims are now.
suburban: This school has upper grades up to Grade 12. So, not only the kids whom will miss out their education because of this incident, but ALSO the O-Level & A-Level students.
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petite for life: Sadly, Sudan was the first Arabian & Muslim country she works in. Her colleagues said that the teacher's dream was to teach in an Arabian country to know about the culture & traditions of Arabian countries, and she made that dream possible last August when she started teaching at the Unity High School in Sudan. However, that dream now became a nightmare because of what happened to her. She is in custody since Sunday and she's experiencing some awful days in Sudan for a mistake she didn't commit!
It's not really her fault that she has no knowledge at all about Islam. Why should she know about Islam? Furthermore, she didn't really insult Islam because she wasn't the one naming the teddy bear Mohammed! 90% of the Unity High School students are Muslim. 20 out of the 23 children whom were supposed to name the teddy bear, chose the name Mohammed. Now, why on earth would she NOT let the children name the teddy bear Mohammed? Why the hell are they expecting her to stop the children from naming the teddy bear Mohammed?
Some Sudanese people in Sudan told me that the school - Unity High School - has published on today's papers a formal apology to the Sudanese people and the entire Islamic nation because of what happened and guess what? They said that they fired the teacher! How brave! And BTW, this school isn't a Sudanese school. It's a British international school which is conducted by British since 1902. Probably they disapproved the teacher's act because they're just worried that the school's reputation would go down.
Now what I don't understand is, if it's the parents who complained about this & they didn't like it, why did not they complain to the school's administration directly and let the school deal with this? Why did they file an official complaint to the Ministry of Education and not the school? Why did the Ministry of Education file a case and let the authorities ARREST the teacher? Couldn't they sort things out in another way, without arresting the teacher, and even demanding a sentence to death to be applied on her? This is really sick.
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um khalid: How would the teacher know that if she allowed the students to name the teddy bear Mohammed, it would provoke anger among Muslims? 20 out of 23 chose the name Mohammed, and that tells the teacher that it's absolutely okay to name the teddy bear Mohammed. It's not her fault that she doesn't know, especially that she has been in Sudan for only 4 months now.
Yes, I agree that when I go to a foreign country, I should respect their culture & tradition. But, I won't learn those traditions overnight, will I? I need QUITE sometime to learn them, and this lady has just been there for 4 months! So, she definitely doesn't know everything about Sudan's culture & Islam, because it's her first 4 months in a Muslim country! Nobody told her this & that, they immediately arrested her & filed a case against her!
Plus, this is really not Islam. As I mentioned the lady is in custody since Sunday. Islam did not ask us to do this to an innocent person & a person whom is considered our guest!
Poor lady.
She's not 'innocent'. You can't say: It's not her fault because the the children agreed!
Because you should put in consideration that she is the one brought the idea up in the first place.
And seeing what happend after the cartoons, I'm sure she knew that what she was about to do was risky.
But I agree, the reaction is embarrassing.
Yes, it was her idea to give the teddy bear a name and record a diary for the teddy bear every week, BUT, it was not her suggestion to name the child Mohammed, was it?!
She gave the children the choice to name the child. She didn't want to interfere in naming the child. They - the children - came up with 8 names including Abdullah, Mohammed and Hassan. 20 out of 23 chose Mohammed. And so they named the teddy bear Mohammed! I can't see the teacher being guilty for allowing the students to name the teddy bear what they personally wanted to name! Be it their favorite name, a name of their favorite teacher, a name they hear a lot, or a name of any other person!
I still insist that the teacher is innocent.
Oh I see, if it was that way, that she offered to name it anything they liked and they chose Mohammed, then alright.
I did not know she was in her late fifties, now I feel even more sad for her.
I hope someone (in power) steps up and gets her out of this mess.
What the rest of the sane world should be saying is just this. " lay a hand on this woman, punish her in ANY WAY, and the government of Sudan will not get one penny from ANYONE, no teachers, no aid of any kind " I am assuming that the "moderate" Muslim is outraged by this, show it already
this overreacting will not help at all to understand each other, it's the best way to bring people up agains Islam. I got some muslim friends and they dont understand this reaction.
Outrageous!
They jailed her for 15 days :(
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7119399.stm)
Perhaps you Sudanese should have lashed all those kids who suggested namimg the bear after Mohammed - they should have know better, shouldn't they?
As a westerner I cannot think of one good thing to say about the Islamic religion. I hope the prophet helps you the next time there is a drought or famine because you dont deserve any help from the western world.
Sudan, the country that gave refuge to Bin Laden & Al Quaeda.
Need I say more?
The Sudanese Government has a guestbook in English at:
http://www.sudan.gov.sd/english/index_Guest_Book.html
Please add your comment there.
Administrative Comment:
I would like to ask the readers, especially those who leave comments anonymously, to watch out their mouths and comment on the issue in good manners. No need for using bad words & unacceptable ones. We can criticize without swearing, you know.
Comment #16 has been deleted by me.
Thanks,,,
Someone sent me an e-mail regarding this issue but I'm not sure if it's anyone from the "anonymous" readers who left the comments above or not.
Anyways, s/he was asking why is it a crime to offend someone? and if someone offends me, is it a crime?
I would like to tell that reader that the case here is not that the teacher offended our holy prophet (PBUH) because simply she was not the one naming the teddy bear Mohammed and neither she suggested to name the teddy bear Mohammed. On the other hand, if she really suggested naming the teddy bear Mohammed or by any means intended to offend our prophet (PBUH), then yeah. That is a crime, my friend, which ALL Muslims will never let go. We've all seen what happened when that Danish newspaper published some cartoons of our prophet which we considered offensive.
If someone offends me or you, for us it's not considered a crime. But if you offend our religion, Qur'an or any of our prophets, that will absolutely outrage us and we will consider it a crime and take actions toward it.
The Sudanese have offended me!
I donated to the Live Aid appeal in 1985 when I saw the suffering that your people endured during the famine.
Give me one good reason why I should donate again after you treat this woman in such an apalling way?
I would not be offended if you defamed christianity, you have a right to free speech & thought.
Islam, on the other had, denies the right to free speech. You do yourselves no favours, nor deserve any.
the bear is for sale on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330193980849
I'm an average British citizen of no real faith, but I have always respected all religions, and although the Muslim faith is at the centre of this situation my common sense tells me that it's the small minority that has taken this daft situation to extreme.
The vast majority have realised that it was a terrible mistake, and unless there are facts here that we don't know yet then it really was innocent.
I would find it of interest to know what the Muslim faith says about forgiveness.
One thing is for certain after the mistakes by the media last year, and this latest event, everyone should now be aware of how disrespectful producing an image of the Prophet Mohammed is.
Having been to Saudi, and been checked for religious symbols ( a cross ) As a Christian, I was deeply offended.
"If someone offends me or you, for us it's not considered a crime. But if you offend our religion, Qur'an or any of our prophets, that will absolutely outrage us and we will consider it a crime and take actions toward it."
Perhaps we should use nukes...
We should send in the SAS to free her & eliminate anyone that gets in our way.
Also we should deport all Sudanese from the British Isles with immediate effect.
All aid to Sudan from the west must stop with immediate effect.
Religion is the root of ALL EVIL & you just proved it
anonymous @ 12:09AM: Our Islam is much greater than that. It's just us whom are making it look ridiculous, while it's really great!
Lots of educated Muslim Sudanese, some of whom have Ph.Ds in Islamic Studies, are really pissed at the way the Sudanese authorities reacted.
Just as we expect visitors to our country to abide by our laws and customs, so too do the Sudanese have the right to ask the same of their visitors. So if she has to be fined, jailed, flogged or have her hands cut off, so be it.
However, I understand the investigation has uncovered that it was one of the students at fault, and that student has admitted His guilt. So He should share the punishment, or His parents if He is too young.
anonymous @ 12:28AM: And why should the child be punished? Yes he is the one who suggested naming the teddy bear Mohammed. But was he intending to name it after the prophet (PBUH)? Was he even intending to offend the prophet (PBUH)?
He chose the name Mohammed because he wanted to name the teddy bear after himself. His name is Mohammed. Plus, even if his name wasn't Mohammed, maybe Mohammed is his favorite name, or a name of his favorite teacher! Where is the guilt?
Anonymous said...
I would find it of interest to know what the Muslim faith says about forgiveness.
According to christian mythology, the ideas of love your neighbour and forgive our sins came with the "second covenant" - ie what jesus supposedly brought to earth and gave to mandkind. Before the second covenant there were only the 10 commandments and "an eye for an eye". Unfortunately the other two branches of abrahamic religion - the jews and the muslims - have no second covenent and therefore see no theological drive to forgiveness in the way that christians do, or at least that is the theory.
That is right but you have mixed up New Covenant with Second Covenant
Well done - another success for moderate, balanced Islam. Way to get support guys.
To be a Muslim is to be radical and blinkered. Define tolerance now you idiots.
Hundreds of people in the muslim nations have the name Mohammed or name their kids Mohammed. Is it not highly possible that kids name their toys after such common names?
My Friend was named Allan by his Parents. Does that Mean that they heaped Insults upon the Name of Allah by so doing?
Even as an atheist I try to give those who have to believe the benefit of the doubt. However in the case of Islam and the self-abuse it continually practices it is becoming harder and harder to to find any merits that it could provide. Use of a name is blasphemy, charactures of something that has never been seen is a crime. The real crime seems to be stupidity.
Can I name my pig Mohamed?
The view that she should be let off because she did not appreciate the cultural implications is itself is an obscene idea.
It was never a cultural insult, nor even a religious one, and the implication that should she have been conscious of an actual offence and thereby flogged till bleeding and collapse is the real obscenity here.
There is never an excuse to beat or imprison a fellow human simply because they either do not appreciate a religion. While her position in a mixed faith school might have given her more caution as far as people braying for her death for "insult", it leaves me gob-smacked that such a judicial system can exist in 2007.
Unfortunately, as many have said, this does nothing to help moderate Islam, or any other religion prone to getting upset over an historical figure and any perceived sledge of character.
Ignorance regarding a religion should not cause punishment from another human. Ignorance within the religion itself is the frightening thing.
The majority of the civilized west (i.e. the west except USA) are practicing atheists and show only up in church for their own funeral, at best. They generally don’t give a rat’s ass what religious fanatics are whining about around the world. No matter what religion they are.
Sometimes though in later years, through the sedating haze of our beloved world "news" media conglomerates daily farting, a slight glimpse of spectacularly mean spirited Islamic fanaticism manages to burst.
And to be quite honest, these days the Islamic fanatics are the true turd-blossoms growing from the decomposing heap of crumbling world religions.
And don’t get me wrong... there is no difference between a stealth bomber flown by a Christian oil-crusader or a sex starved, pimple ridden, suicide bomber who some mullah has convinced that he will get laid in heaven, only if he runs into a group of innocent people and blows them to pieces.
But things like this teacher crap. It’s so spectacularly stupid. It is so incredibly idiotic. And to the atheist, being stupid is far worse than sleeping with your neighbor’s wife (just to take an example...)
Stuff like the Saudi’s jailing that teenage girl for being raped by a bunch of guys the other day.
Or the general Muslim populace going literally bananas when some completely insignificant Danish cartoonist draws a picture of one of Allah’s prophets.
This shit gets through. This is something that people in the west actually pick up, hear, read about and ask themselves: "Are all Muslims totally apeshit crazy?"
And when they get enough cases where they ask themselves this question, it stops being a question, it becomes a fact. Or at least a working hypothesis.
A hypothesis that is sought proven and supported again and again with further sound bites from jungle justice mullahs and imams on the lunatic fringe of Islam.
And after a while ordinary people start "hating" Muslims, especially older people. Well, actually they think they hate them. Most people up here don’t know any Muslims, but they have heard they are crazy in a bad way so they hate them, just to be rather safe than sorry.
My mom, who has never known a Muslim, hates Muslims. She even thinks they smell which is rather weird as she has never seen one up close.
My mother in law hates Muslims too. And she has seen a few as well. But then again, she hates everyone who does not live within 100 km radius of her home. She does not know them and they are therefore potentially bad people. Silly, but this is how a lot of aging people feel. I think she hates me too...
I don’t think my generation up here particularly dislikes Muslims more than any other people who define themselves by their religion.
But I am sure that if fanatics within the Islam religion continue to insist, I am pretty sure we will start disliking Muslims more than other people.
We might even end up hating them.
I hope we grow old before that happens....
Why dont you ask yourself - if the children are muslim and they know that they are not allowed to insult the prophet pursuant to their religion - why did they pick the name? Perhaps they should be whipped by their parents too for not understanding the overriding tenent of islam - ie control. Or perhaps their parents should be whipped for not teaching them properly? Sounds like the typical double standards we have come to expect.
This is a disgrace to thinking people around the world. It sounds like political scapegoating to me.
I would like to reply to the guy who thinks that insulting religion is a crime. If you live in a country where a freedom of speech is an integral part of our laws and constitution then one should be allowed to say whatever they like about any religion. Your brothers in the UK certainly do with threats of death and everyone has to listen because it is free speech. Double standards again...obviously. Pick which standard you want and then live by it. If you don't want someone insulting your religion then don't insult someone else's beliefs and the INCLUDES aetheists who are sick of having everyone's religions shoved down our throats frankly. I think you will find that secular humanists are by far the largest political force in the world. It is just that they are not organized but by golly if this crap continues they will get organized.
Administrative Comment:
Comments directly offending my religion - Islam - and my prophet (PBUH) have been deleted.
I do support Ms Gibson but that's because she is absolutely innocent & she didn't offend nor intended to offend our holy prophet (PBUH). If she was intending to offend our prophet (PBUH), I wouldn't have supported her then.
Further comments offending our holy prophet (PBUH) & our religion will immediately be deleted.
Thanks,,,
moses the mouse?
mary the malamut?
buddha the buffalo?
If a 40-year-old woman had decided to teach in an orthodox muslim country the least she can do is learn some basic laws.
Britain has crazy laws too, laws that could lock some muslims away without trial for 2 months (the latest one for writing poems about Palestine), and upto years in prison if convicted. You could get jailed in Germany for suggesting the holocaust started slightly later, by a matter of months - which for anyone studying history academically would realise the ludicrous nature of the penalty.
To claim this is a Sudanese injustice is a farce. Everyone knows this woman would not get lashes, but look at the media reaction. If anything, I have been impressed by the Sudanese response, given the propoganda against them.
In my experience muslims are rarely just called Muhammed, and they would have names like Muhammed Abdul or Abdul Muhammed. I could be wrong however.
egg bandit: No, you're mistaken. Muslims name themselves Mohammed after the prophet (PBUH) without adding Abdul before or after the name. You've mixed up between the prophet's name & the 99 attributes of God. When we name a Muslim after any of the 99 attributes of God, we add Abdul before the name like Abdullah or AbdulRazzaq... etc.
Amjad
why bother blogging? You are censoring everything that you deem offensive to your religion. Perhaps the people reading this might appreciate a bit of criticism. Perhaps you should take notice of it. Constructive criticism always improves performance and thinking. Do you think non believers are misguided? Or do you gladly partake in the wonders of medical science, for example, if and when you need it? Perhaps you should just put yourself in Allah's hands rather than waste medical resources.
If you live in a true democracy and that means freedom to think differently from your parents and your peers and to voice your differences then you will realise how sad collective thinking really is. And how it stagnates progress and prevents development. Muslim countries by and large are resource rich. They should be wealthy and affluent. However, religion is used as a political tool to keep people under control so the wealth does not have to be shared. If there is a god do you think that is what he or she would want? People being killed in his or her name? Men kill men. Men write books and wield political power. You will work out what I am saying. Although cant be criticising the holy books can we?
Lack of education (through non distribution of wealth to the masses) has traditionally hindered their ability to get the stuff out of the ground although if it was not for scientific and technological development from the west there would be absolutely no need for the stuff from the ground and we would all be subsistence living as in the past.
anonymous @ 1:53PM: You said it yourself. Constructive criticism helps improving performance. Hence, I'm blogging! :-)
This blog post of mine is criticizing the reaction of the Sudanese authorities on the issue of the British teacher. I didn't offend the authorities, hence it's constructive criticism. Offensive criticisms on the other hand are not accepted, and I've never thought of offending someone when I wanted to criticize him or her. That's why ANY offensive comment on this blog will be censored.
If you're here to criticize the Sudanese authorities, feel free to do so, but just remember that criticizing does not need to involve offending, does it?
If you're here to criticize my religion and actions done by some of my religion's men, then again you're absolutely free to do so, BUT, constructively! Offensive criticism will definitely always be censored as far as I'm concerned.
There are comments which are criticizing my religion and I didn't delete them. I didn't delete them because they contain constructive criticisms which Muslims should take into consideration to improve things. But those barbaric & offensive criticisms have been censored, and will always be censored as far as I'm concerned as I mentioned before.
Regards,,,
Amjad
Thank you for your explanation but I think that the majority of the world (including the muslims in it) are confounded as to what actually does constitute criticism and what is offensive to islam these days. To me it appears that absolutely everything is offensive and not a single criticism can be made either against your prophet nor against your religion.
I am married to a muslim. I do not allow religion in my home. I would prefer that we make a decisions as human secularists and leave the supernatural out of it.
unbeliveable government!
BBC quoted u:)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7119391.stm
All I can say Is I am extremely grateful I do not live in a muslim country. As for the other charge of showing contempt for religion I would have been found gulity as I have nothing but!!!
All I can say is that if the children named the teddy bear mohammed (peace be with you)why have they not been taken to court and threatened with death, lashings and prison. Also I think that everyone who has given money to help Sudan in the past ie Oxfam should stop doing so now as our efforts are being wasted by this sort of medieval justice. What has Sudan done for the World? Also when you say the word mohammed you are suppose to say peace be with you. I think if mohammed was alive now he would kill himself with what islam has turned itself into -hatred for all other religions
Islam has to adapt its attitudes to the centuary we are in. This women only wanted to provide an education for young children and has now been put in conditions that are humanly unacceptble and also now facing the unthinkable.
For a community if it is looking to be accepted as understanding and rational, then their certainly on the wrong path now.
Unbelievable. Outrageous. Somehow the words to come close. It's like reading something out of the dark ages. Imagine living in a country where naming a teddy bear anything could bring out protesters demanding the death penalty. Of course in this country (US) we'd probably want to sue the school and teacher.
Seems like an extension of victim mentality.
The saddest part is that it speaks volumes about the lack of strength (in my view) of the protester faith, just the opposite of what they say. If my faith is strong, you can't injure it by naming a teddy bear.
I think the UK should send a Hercules Transporter plane full of teddys with mohammed emblazed on them. And let the Sudanese government pick a fight with someone who can stand up and fight for themselves. Not a middle aged women in a foreign country who cannot defend herself, there to help children in Sudan be educated.
Scenario - If I am sudanese and live with my wife and I have a teddy and call it mohammed and someone over hears me do this and they report it to the Sudanese police - I would be arrested and threatened with death, flogging and imprisonment. What are the penalties for doing something really bad like murder.
Look at Sudan and the people and I just hope they don't just starve to death or have droughts or any natural disasters because I as a British person will not be helping the Sudanese ever again.
Fed up!
I am fed up with hearing how peaceful the muslim religion is and yet the news is full of Muslim groups raping,killing,and screaming jihad every time someone does something they dont like or precieve its a insult against Allah. There is no chance of peace as i see it and if Islam is such a peaceful religion why dont ppl follow its tenets???
Civilisations that base their laws on religion will find themselves isolating themselves from others and destroying itself
Christianity has been forced upon the world and now Islam is trying to aswell. Look who has most wealth and prosperity muslim countries or christian countries. Islam is trying to drag down our christian countries to their feeble third world level and barbaric practices.
I thought that religion was a good thing that taught you right from wrong. Islam to me does not do this it breeds hatred for other religions, but christianity has its faults as well
Also as Sudan is not the most developed country in the world you thought that they might have better things to think about. Imagine if one of the nutter extremist somehow got inside the jail where the women is being held they will probably try and kill her. Send in the SAS and get the lady out of the country.
Um Khalid said...
And seeing what happend after the cartoons, I'm sure she knew that what she was about to do was risky.
Quite right! "After the cartoons" she should have known that Islamists are irrational, ignorant, imbecilic and infantile.
She does now. We all know now.
This just shows the ignorance and inability to evolve as a religion and people. SHE DID NOT name the stupid bear! The children named the bear! Let them arrest the children and imprison and or give them 40 lashes!
This just took a major step backward for Sudan and Islam as a whole. What makes it amusing is that this is all men. Men who are suppose to be wise and understanding, are nothing more than idiotic and barbaric.
Well well, I wondered how long it would take for the guns & knives to appear.....
So the Sudanese protesters want a British subject to be shot for allowing a Muslim child to call a toy He who must not be named
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7121025.stm
The Sudanese public would be better advised to spend time thinking how they will cope when the next famine strikes because make no mistake, the support enjoyed previously from the west will not be there, you are digging a very big hole as a nation, one which you will struggle to be free from for many years to come.
I am not a muslim, but I must say although I think it despicable for this woman to be treated as she has been, I also think it hypocritical to focus on her plight.
What of the other British citizens imprisoned without charge or trial in Guantanamo bay prison?
Why are we not equally outraged and vociferous for these people? Many of them are Muslims, yet we say nor demand nothing for them, why shoud we expect Muslims in Sudan to behave differently to the US?
Hugh
Just reading a previous comment about naming people. I suppose they could have called it rupert or winnie or even abdul mohammed. I am sure if she had called it abdul mohammed the woman could have escaped prosecution on a technicality as she would not be actually refering to the prophet mohammed, but a toothless, scruffy, dim, uneducated, simple, starving Sudanese man.
Maybe because they are terrorists and no americans have come and arrested a peaceful person and thrown me in a jail in Cuba thats what
Listen Up Muslim Fanatics!
The world tires of your hypocrisy!
It is YOU who are shaming All the Prophets!! You are causing the world view of Islam to be lowered.
Innocently naming a toy the wrong name is a crime punishable by clubbing and kniving but.....
It's perfectly acceptable to murder a human being over an honest mistake? Is this REALLY what your Mohammed teaches you?
I want no part of your beliefs.
The REAL Mohammed is somewhere crying over your lack of wisdom and reason.
So I take it that any parents who call their children Muhammed will now be imprisoned for their sins? After all, a name is a name so for equal rights they should all be in jail.
Sorry but this is a political punishment and nothing to do with the "crime". If they felt so insulted, why only 15 days? There was no insult, there is more to this than meets the eye. Somewhere in that judiciary system are people who want to take a stab at foreigners working in their country and this is their means of doing so.
Poor woman...
Are people going to live (and help) in these countries aware of the risks involved? Do you muslim friends face the same risks when you come to live in Europe (seeking a better future)? Are you fully aware of our religion and all our traditions? Or maybe we are more tolerant than you?
"Three words: This is ridiculous"
well said!
This event is going to do serious damage to a religion which is already facing problems being accepted by the West.
Looking around on the web, the jokes are already out and people are now being ridiculed, Muslims being called Teddy Bears.
It will seriously backfire. Of course nobody can blame every Muslim for this rediculous situation, its just a few to blame. But all will suffer unfortunately.
I would do 15 days in a squallid shitty jail for the chance to sell my story for £1million to the dirtiest red top rag.
Every cloud has a silver living.
There is already a perception in the West (by non-muslims) that Islam is belligerent, intolerant and hyprocritically sensitive.
This case will only confirm those suspicions.
Ultimately the Sudanese authorities, Abdul Jalil Karuri, and whoever else is behind the overreaction will damage Islam more than the Bush administration ever could.
Never again will I send another nickel to a Muslim based charity. I'm done with them.
Dear Amjad,
Thanks for setting up your blog and allowing people from all around the world add their thoughts and feelings on this situation.
As I read through everyone's opinions I felt I wanted to add mine too. I am a New Zealander, raised a Christian who lived and worked in Bahrain and now lives in London.
I was lucky enough to mix with the locals of Bahrain most of whom were muslim.
They are kind, welcoming and extremely interested in who you are and where you're from.
I feel really sad when I read and see the small percentage of people who rant and rave on the street about how they want to kill a teacher..
I'm positive that's not what 99% of Muslims in Sudan and around the world want, but unfortunately you dont hear about them.. they aren't news worthy so you wont see them on TV or in the newspapers because those stories just wont sell.
The biggest problem around the world is a huge incredible lack of education. I know it's cliche but I didnt know anything about muslims until I lived in Bahrain and learnt as much as I did. Hopefully I taught them something about being Christian. I respect their religion now because I have a better understanding of it and why they think the way they do.. it's great, it's different and I totally and utterly respect it. I'm sure after chatting with me they respect mine too.
Maybe kids in every school around the world should be taught from a young age about other religions as well as their own.. That way we wouldnt have the huge misunderstandings in the world that we have right now. We'd have our own personal knowledge and a real respect for someone else's faith.
My finger's remain crossed one day that will happen... Until then - peace and understanding everyone. Try to understand and learn as much as you can about something before you commend on it.
I am actually from Malaysia and a christian but i think non-muslim should stop insulting and dissing Islam. I used to live in Khartoum and graduated from Unity High School. Most of my friends are muslim but they are damn nice people ok. Not all muslims are the same, same goes for other religions. Just because you are a christian does not make you any better than any other religion.
what happened to Miss Gibbons is truly absurd and I am really sad to see her journey in Sudan to end so miserably. no doubt she is going to be traumatized for life. it is sad that after they founded her guilty (unjust!), some narrow-minded, extremist wanted her dead. Is violence the solution to a problem? she is just a harmless middle aged woman for God's sake! Did she molest the kids in school? did she kill? All she did was allowing her students to name the bear mohammed after one of the boy's name! Unfortunately i guess the sudanese authorities do not think otherwise. She is here for an adventure and to do good... now what?
If she committed a mistake unintentionally, forgive her, tell her it is wrong and let her learn from it. that is what we learn from religions right? to love and forgive. right now this whole blown out of proportion situation is only giving islam and Sudan a bad name, and I know that that is not what Islam is all about.
Sudan has enough trouble already. Why need more?
However my biggest concern is people who just simply throw out words of hatred because they are too ignorant. By insulting other people's religion you are just as bad as those people who wants her dead. in addition, you are also going to create more tension between religions and sooner or later it is going to blow up.
I do agree religion is the root of all evil. However, many can't live without it.
Thanks for this Amjad- because I really think this is the most ludicrous thing that has ever happened so far with the issues we, in the West are facing with islam. I understand now that there is a protest calling for her execution, etc...
As a mother, my 6 year old son wanted to name his teddy bear jesus- and I felt such happiness in this, because I realised he was bonding with his religion. CHildren use toys and play to express themselves and what they feel- and I would think by these little children's response to name him what they did, they were expressing a growing awareness and love for their prophet. These are little children and their teacher was respecting their wishes, innocently. This reaction will teach these children that their prophet is dangerous and represents fear and anger..not love.
I have to say, after all that has been happening in the news i.e, 'everything insults islam' and all the fires and carnage around the world and within the news daily, I'm now very wary of anything associated with this religion. THis is really sad, but understandable.
Whatever happened to common sense and judgment? The woman obviously made a mistake!
I believe that we should "suspend" any aid the UK gives to Sudan and have emailed the Prime Ministers office to that effect,as I suspect other ordinary Britons have done.
It is about time fanatics in this world realised that if you cut one of our citizens...we all bleed.
Listen, I think we all agree that by letting this debate take place here, Amjad has shown that the majority of people that follow the Muslim faith a good honest people.
Sadly the religion contains far too many fundamentalists who believe that Islam should be followed by everyone & as long as they hold that flawed foolish idea then things like this will happen.
Someone made the following statement
"Maybe kids in every school around the world should be taught from a young age about other religions as well as their own."
Well I'm sorry but I don't think that kids should be taught any religion in school, children don't choose religion they have it forced upon them. They should be allowed to make their own decision what religion, if any, they wish to follow when they are at a stage in their lives where they can make a choice based on all factors.
I'm an Athiest but I respect everybody's beliefs, sadly religious fundamentalists cannot & will not ever offer that respect to followers of alternate religions, whether that be Christianity or Islam
This act of Jailing this woman is an Act of blasephamy. When anyone put man in the same light or above God(Allah) they have committed idol worship. In jailing this woman and calling for her death, it is the same as committing murder. Muhhamed was a man. He was not GOd. And as such his name is nothing more than a name. Best read and understand your own Koran. Christ said"let him who has not sinned cast the first stone" . Who amoung you has not sinned. All fall short of the Glory of God.
Most muslim of today are what Christians were like in the middle ages... a bunch of ipocritical witch hunters... they are the ones who insult their profet... people in this forum who had the courage to say that she is not innocent and all those government manipulated robots that 'marched' on the streets demanding her death they are an insult to the intelligence of every human being...
Oh baby let me be, your lovin' teddy bear
Put a chain around my neck, and lead me anywhere
Oh let me be (oh let him be)
Your teddy bear
I don't wanna be your tiger
'Cause tigers play too rough
I don't wanna be your lion
'Cause lions ain't the kind you love enough
I just wanna be, your teddy bear
Put a chain around my neck and lead me anywhere
Oh let me be (oh let him be)
Your teddy bear
Readers of this blog entry need to check Amjad's own archives for his opinion about another blogger jailed for the expression of his views: http://amjad248.blogspot.com/2007/02/egyptian-blogger-sentenced-to-prison.html . Amjad here believes that apostasy requires a death sentence.
anonymous @ 10:53PM: yeah... and?
Then Amjad should include hisself as a criminal in the eyes of Shira law. To set man up as an idol and worphip that idol is a death sentance to Muslims. Worshipping an man above God(Allah) is idol worship. So Amjad old buddy. Step up to the ax and take your medicne
hmmm.. just to clear one thing out, apostasy has nothing to do with the British teacher's incident. #1
#2: Since I'm a Muslim, and I believe in God, his books & his prophets, and I'm Islamically very well educated, I've been taught that apostasy's penalty is death. However, none of the Muslim countries nowadays apply that penalty really.
If you got anything to comment about on the issue of apostasy & the Egyptian blogger whom was jailed a couple of months ago, you can kindly comment on the issue on that post/entry, using the link a reader provided two comments before this one, but not here, since this is a completely different issue.
Thanks,,,
I read one report which said that the children named the toy after the school caretaker, who they liked. His name was....
So Amjad who comes across all moderate in this discussion actually thinks someone should be killed because he no longer believes in Islam. Thats what happens when your life is defined and driven by ideology, doctrine and dogma instead of common humanity, compassion and the ability to think for oneself.
Amjad, I'm afraid you are on the same level as the teddy bear fanatics. The same ideology, the same inability to form your own conclusions, the same murderous results.
Some very good questions arose, questioning why the children/their parents, who suggested naming the teddy bear Mohammed, weren't arrested or prosecuted for naming the teddy bear Mohammed.
Personally, I say that the Sudanese authorities want this thing to be a Sudanese-British thing and not a Sudanese-Sudanese one since the school is a British school and the Sudanese government has always aimed to shut it down since the 90s. It's not the first time the government made troubles with this school, in particular; Unity High School. And this time, the poor British teacher is the victim.
Im scared to death! I'm afraid they are going to pull me apart and make me into a pillow or something! Will I be punished for my YouTube video???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zny6Ea07YVM
Don't complain when people view Islam as a backward barbaric religion. As for these evil people who want to carry out barbaric acts like lashing and cutting off hands and feet and even stoning to death; you are absolutely sick in the head. If you're honest, Mohammed wasn't exactly perfect himself was he? Certainly he was far worse than someone who calls a teddybear by the name of Mohammed.
Sick and evil. That's what you are. (Not all Muslims - only the barbaric ones)
The real insult to Islam that is occurring in Sudan is what the government of that country is allowing to transpire in the Darfur region:
400,000+ DEAD!
Millions more without food, water, shelter!
Women and girls RAPED!
The reponse of the angry Sudanese protesters is laughable considering the human rights abuses they are allowing their government to commit.
I have just renamed by Teddy Mohammed and there is NOTHING that the repressive government of Sudan, nor its misguided citizens can do about it because I live in a free, democratic country where the government doesn't condone the murder of innocent people, where the government doesn't starve its citizens, and where the government doesn't allow children and women to be raped.
Let me understand this. I understand that one shouldn't offend other religions , but why should it be considered blasphemy if I offend some character that I don't believe in (something is considered blasphemous only if you are a believer of sort). In my eyes the prophet brought much war to the world. Darfur is a future event of earlier times when Islam was pillaging villages and raping women in the name of Allah. I am sure Allah wanted Islam to kill non- believers and while at it, why not have a few virgin to have your way with(sarcasm)?
One must ask is this type of message that Allah wanted to convey? Hatred throughout the whole world. You know muslims forget to defeat the internal struggle that every human being encounters in life. But instead they have to fight the non-believer.
Do I have to believe he's a prophet in order to survive in this world? So all I have to do is accept Mohamed as a prophet and that will make me a good person? Before accepting any religion, the fundamentals has to be there, and that is respect for all humankind. Respect is important because I really find it blasphemous when terrorist bomb infidels for it shows that G-d doesn't know how to take care of things and needs our petty help to cleanse "His" world. No one asked you to kill anyone, and so if you ever have the urge to kill, just kill yourself!!! Even the violence that took place after the danish cartoons, was disgusting. Another blasphemy I find is how you call it blasphemy to insult Mohamed; are you equating his importance with G-d. Doesn't he make it clear in the Koran that he is just a mere simple person? Explain the blasphemy to me please.
I recognise there is a sensitivty to the use of Mohammed .... I am curious on how many people have the name Mohammed ....?
and why that is not a problem?
Absolute disgrace...as a Brit i think we need to be particular in our customs as well and stop funding ...crying for food charities. There is no point milking the snake...let them suffer and also we should send all the Sudanise to their country and let them suffer.
Many want us to believe that Islam is a religion of 'PEACE' but I tell you it is NOT!
There are more than 100 verses in the Qur'an advocating the use of violence to spread Islam. In the Qur'an, "Allah" commands Muslims, 'Take not the Jews and Christians as friends....Slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them.... Fight against such...as believe not in Allah...' (Surah 5:51; 9:5,29,41, etc..). Though most Muslims would shrink from obeying such commands, this is official Islam and it cannot change without admitting that Muhammad was a false prophet and murderer."
I am glad I live in a country where I can have freedom of speech and freedom to offend Yes even Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and so on without fear of imprisonment.
The CULT called ISLAM should be banned to the middle ages where it belongs!
The Seven Deadly Questions of Islam
1. 'Your Bible has been corrupted.'
It is fruitless to try to share the Gospel with a Muslim who thinks that the Bible has been corrupted, since even if he was persuaded to reject the Qur'an, he would never accept the implications of the Bible until he was sure that it was authentic. Bear in mind that a Muslim believes every word of the Qur'an was written by God and brought to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel; it is no wonder that they see the Bible, written by over 40 men including a prime minister (Daniel), fishermen (Peter), a doctor (Luke) and prisoners (Jeremiah, Paul) over almost 2000 years as human and fallible in comparison. To compare the Bible with the Qur'an is therefore not to compare like with like. However, as we shall see, it is logically impossible for the Bible to have corrupted.
We begin with what the Qur'an says about the Bible; many verses actually confirm that it is God's Word and has not been changed. Here are only a few for example: sura 5:43 'How come they to you for judgement when they have the Torah, wherein are contained the commandments of God?'; sura 5:44 'We [God] did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and light...'; sura 5:46 'We sent Jesus...confirming that which was revealed before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and light...'; sura 5:68 '[Jews and Christians] have no guidance until you observe the Torah and the Injil [Gospel]'; sura 4:136 'Believe in God and His messenger [Muhammad], and the Scripture which He revealed to His messenger [the Qur'an] and the Scripture which He revealed aforetime [the Bible]'; sura 10:91 'If you [Muhammad] are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto you, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before you'; sura 15:9 'We reveal the Reminder, and Lo! We truly are its Guardian [ie the Bible is guarded against corruption by God]'; sura 6:34 'There is none to alter the Words of Allah'; sura 10:64 'There is no changing of the Words of Allah.'
If the Bible was corrupted, was this before or after Muhammad? If before, why does God tell Muhammad to refer to a corrupted Scripture for guidance, and why does he say of the Torah and Gospel 'wherein is guidance and light' rather than 'wherein there used to be before they were corrupted'? If after, why does the Muslim not accept the Bible, since current translations are all based upon manuscripts that predate Muhammad?
If it was corrupted, was this by Jews or Christians? Since neither were on speaking terms with each other (sura 2:113 'The Jews say the Christians follow nothing (true) and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing (true), yet both are readers of the Scripture', also see 5:82), how could they agree to change every single Bible identically? Why was there no record of this happening, and why did nobody try to stop it or hide authentic Bibles? The New Testament books were widely distributed as soon as they were written - the 'Jesus Papyrus' of Matthew 26, found in Magdalene College and recently dated to AD 68 was found in Egypt. Presumably Matthew was still alive when it was written - so why did he not try to correct it if it had been tampered with? Why did the Christians not remove embarrassing stories like Peter's denial of Christ (Matt 26:69-75) or Paul and Barnabas' disputation (Acts 15:39)?
What is the Bible's testimony of itself? 'All Scripture is God-breathed...' (2 Tim 3:16); Peter describes Paul's writings as Scripture since some people maliciously distort his teaching 'as they do the other Scriptures' (2 Pet 3:16). 'The Law was given through Moses' (John 1:17) and Jesus said 'Scripture cannot be broken' (John 10:35). His words are 'spirit and life' (John 6:63) and He has the words of eternal life (John 6:68). How could anybody dare to add or remove portions of Scripture when faced with the warning in Rev 22:18-19 'If anybody adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anybody takes words away from this book of prophecy God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city....'
Significantly the early Muslim commentators (eg. Bukhari, al-Razi) were all agreed that the Bible could not be changed since it was God's Word and several centuries passed before Muslims claimed that the Bible had been changed, when they carefully read the stories in the Qur'an and noted that they were different from those in the Bible. The verses used to support corruption in the Bible have been totally misused by Muslims. For example sura 2:42 'Confound truth with falsehood, nor knowingly conceal the truth' was said to have come to Muhammad after two Jews were brought to him for judgement, having committed adultery. The other Jews wanted to test him to see if he, as a prophet of God, knew what was in the Torah. So he asked for a Torah and got a boy to read the punishments for disobedience. When the boy reached Lev 20:10 ('if a man commits adultery with another man's wife....both must be put to death') the Jew accused of adultery slammed his hand over the verse so the boy could not read it (source: Abu Dawood 4449 (Arabic) or 4432 (English)). A far cry from corrupting the text of the Bible. Other verses say that a group of Jews used to listen to Scripture then change it - but (i) it was only a group, not all the Jewish people around the world let alone in Mecca; (ii) they must have had the original genuine copies in order to have been accused of changing it; and (iii) they did not change the written text, they simply told Muhammad that it said things which were not there, in order to mislead him.
2. 'What about the predictions of Muhammad in the Bible?'
This is a strange question for someone to ask if they believe that the Bible has been tampered with. It is said that there used to be many prophecies about the coming of Muhammad in the Bible but after he came Jews and Christians deleted as many as possible. Since our translations are based on manuscripts copies centuries before Muhammad this cannot be true but the myth persists. What about the 'prophecies' which were not deleted?
sura 61:6 says 'Jesus, son of Mary said, "I am indeed the Messenger of God to you, confirming the Torah that is before me and giving good tidings of a messenger who shall come after me whose name shall be Ahmad."' Before you reply, 'But nowhere in the Bible does Jesus talk about such a person!' you will be told to look at John 14:16 'I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you...' The Greek word for Counsellor is parakletos (literally, one who draws alongside, as in a defence barrister in a court of law). Muslims claim that John originally wrote periklytos which apparently is Greek for 'Praised One'. Not a single manuscript of John 14:16 or 14:26 (where parakletos is used again) has periklytos however and one wonders how such a downright lie ever came to be invented. In the context of John 14, the Parakletos is to be with the disciples for ever (v16); He is the Spirit of Truth (v17) who is neither seen nor known by the world, but who lives inside belivers; and He is the Holy Spirit who reminds the Christians of all that Jesus taught them (v26). Could any of these things relate to a physical human being, Muhammad?
'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran with tens of thousands of holy ones' (Deut 33:2) and 'God came from Teman, the Holy One from Mount Paran' (Hab 3:3). Muslims claim that Moses came from Sinai, Jesus from Seir and Muhammad from Mount Paran, and the tens of thousands refers to one of his battles fought with ten thousand soldiers! Not only is the context clearly God and nobody else, but the interpretation is based upon a nineteenth-century geographer who apparently identified Paran with Mecca and Teman with Medina. That Paran is actually 1000km away from Mecca can be seen from the chronicles of the Israelites' wanderings, eg in Deut 1:1, also see Num 13 - how could the twelve spies leave Paran (v3), go staight into Canaan and explore the whole country (v21-22), cut some grapes (v23) and bring them back to Paran fresh (v27) in a mere 40 days if they were travelling a total of 2000km?
'[The Jews] asked [John], 'Are you the Prophet?' He answered, 'No.'' Although Muslims reject the testimony of John 1 that Jesus was divine (v1, 2, 14, 18, 34, 49) they hold that the Prophet referred to is Muhammad. The origins of this Prophet go back to Deut 18:15 ('The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from among your brethen') who is clearly identified to be Jesus in Acts 3:22. Of the differences between Moses andMuhammad, not the least is that Muhammad was not Jewish and yet the Prophet will be from their own brethren (this excludes descent through Ishmael, Isaac's half-brother, Gen 16:12 versus 17:19). Moses is far more comparable to Jesus than to Muhammad: both were born in poverty and there were plots to kill them in infancy (Ex 1:15-16, 22 v. Matt 2:13); yet both were rescued (Ex 2:2-10 v. Matt 2:13). Both were prepared for a period of forty units of time (forty being a biblical unit for preparation): Ex 7:7 v. Matt 4:1); both liberated their people from slavery (Exodus v. John8:32-36); water was subject to them both (Red Sea Ex 14:21 v. Sea of Galilee Matt 8:26); both spoke to God face to face (Ex 33:11 v. Matt 17:3), both their faces shone (Ex 34:29 v. Matt 17:2); both died because of sin (Num 20:12 v. Is 53, John 1:29, 10:15).
3. 'Christians worship three gods' - and 'God has no son.'
The Trinity is almost invariably the Muslim's greatest stumbling-block to the Gospel and diverts numerous conversations away from more productive issues. At the start it must be said that there is only being who can fully comprehend the nature of God, and that is Himself. However there are many clues in the Bible to His triune character.
The Qur'an is mistaken in its portrayal of the Trinity as Mary and Jesus being two separate gods besides Allah: 'O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah?'(sura 5:116); 'How can He [God] have a child, when there is for Him no wife?' (sura 6:101); 'They indeed have disbelieved who say: Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary' (sura 5:17); 'Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son' (sura 4:171). This portryal of Christians as believing that God took Mary as His wife and she and their baby Jesus became two separate gods is as offensive to Christians as it is to Muslims, although there is evidence that heretical sects banished to Arabia were teaching this at the time of Muhammad (known as the Maryamia or Choloridians).
Unfortunately when we say 'Jesus is the Son of God', although we mean 'He is the eternal uncreated Word of God, equal in every respect and fully divined', the Muslim hears in his mind 'God had sex with Mary and she gave birth to Jesus'. It is vital not to say that Jesus is the Son of God to a Muslim - this is not compromising the Gospel, since there are many ways of affirming His divinity without using the convenient but totally misunderstood phrase 'Son of God', as we shall see below.
Helpful pointers include sura 2:177 in which the Arabic ibni-sabili literally means 'son of the road' but is translated 'wayfarer' - just as Jesus is not literally a physical son of God, so a wayfarer is not literally fathered by a road. sura 85:22 is held by the majority of Muslims (Sunnis) to mean that the Qur'an is uncreated, existing with God since the very beginning. If God's word the Qur'an is eternal and uncreated, why is it a problem that Jesus, God's Word should be eternal and uncreated? Indeed there cannot be a time when God's Word has never existed since it is intrinsically a part of God. Interestingly sura 4:171 says Jesus is a Word from God and His Spirit, yet elsewhere the Spirit (Arabic ruuhim minh) is identified as being the very essence of God Himself (sura 2:253 'We supported [Jesus] with the Holy Spirit', 12:87, 58:22 ).
In the Qur'an Jesus has attributes that no other human being has: He was born of a virgin (sura 21:91 - who was Jesus' father according to the Qur'an?) and was sinless (sura 19:19). As a child He made birds out of clay and breathed life into them yet the gift of life is something that only God can give (sura 3:49 - this story first appeared in the heretical Gospel of Thomas in the second century AD). He heals men who were born blind, cures the leper and raises the dead; He has knowledge of what is hidden in men's houses (sura 3:49). He has the power to intercede (sura 3:45 - 'one of those brought near to Allah') yet only God can interceed (sura 39:44); He can forgive sins (sura 61:12), and He alone knows the hour of Judgement (sura 43:61)!
A Muslim will point out that in the Bible Jesus never explicitly says that He is God - and He does not. However, evidence is presented and He allows people to make up their own minds. The Bible categorically denies that there is more than one God (Deut 6:4 'The LORD your God is One' - this verse is quoted by Jesus in Mark 12:29; see also Jam 2:19). Yet the Hebrew word echad for one implies a plurality, eg it is used in Gen 2:24 ('the two shall become one flesh'). God speaks in the plural eg 'Let Us make man in Our image' (Gen 1:26) yet there is no 'royal we' in Hebrew. In Gen 1:2-3 we see all three Persons of the Trinity in action, God, Word and Spirit, and in Matt 28:19 Jesus names these three Persons.
Jesus has the power not only to heal but to forgive sins, and since we sin against God alone, who has the authority to forgive sins except God (Mark 2:7)? Who other than God can demand that our love for Him must be so exclusive that all our other relationships seem like hate in comparison (Luke 14:26)? Since God instigated the Sabbath, only God can be the Lord of the Sabbath, yet Jesus uses this title for himself (Mark 2:28). Jesus passes judgement on our eternal destiny (Matt 25:32, John 5:22) and is with us forever (Matt 28:20). He said that He was the good shepherd (John 10:11) yet God is our shepherd (Ps 23:1). He is the light of the world (John 8:12) yet God is our light and our salvation (Ps 27:1) Heapplied the holy name 'I AM' of God (Ex 3:14) to Himself (John 8:58) - and was stoned for blasphemy. At His trial, when asked by the High Priest if He was the Son of God (a Messianic title,but not automatically one that claimed divinity, as Jesus pointed out in John 10:34-36), Jesus replied, 'I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the MightyOne and coming on the clouds of heaven.' (Mark 14:62). This was a direct reference to Dan 7:13-14, in which the Son of Man is given all authority and all peoples worshipped Him. It was this unambiguous claim to divinity that was deemed sufficient grounds for sentencing Jesus to death. Although Muslims have a problem accepting that Jesus really did die (see Deadly Question 5) there can be no denying that Jesus was at the very least sentenced to die.
When a Muslim says that there can be no Trinity he is limiting God, since God is able to do all things (sura 5:17, 19). In fact in sura 27:8 we read that God appeared to Moses in a burning bush (cf. Ex 3:2). If God can lower Himself to the extent of appearing as a fire, surely He can humble Himself to appear as a man (Phil 2:7) - after all, a human is muchgreater than a fire. The question then becomes not, How could God become a man, but Why did He?
4. 'Why the atonement? - God forgives me if I confess my mistakes.'
In Islam sins are mistakes which you do, and by saying sorry to God He will forgive you. In addition our good deeds take away our bad deeds (sura 11:114) - but if a man rapes a woman then builds a mosque in penitence, how can this restore honour to the woman? It is little incentive to do good. If I am convicted of driving over the speed limit, I cannot escape punishment simply because I have never had a parking ticket.
Sin dishonours the King of Kings and since we are God's slaves (sura 19:30) we must respect Him and accept punishment for dishonouring Him. It does not matter whether we have committed many or few sins - a small stone is just as likely to sink in the sea as a big one because they both share a stoney nature. In the operating theatre it does not matter whether the scalpel has been contaminated by one germ or millions, it is no longer sterile. The penalty for sin is death (Ezk 18:4, Rom 6:23) and God cannot lie (Num 23:19, Rom 3:4). Everything on earth must perish, and flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (I Cor 15:50); only God lasts for ever (sura 55:26-27). Atonement is therefore necessary because we are not good enough to earn a place in Heaven by our own merits.
God has decreed that the life of an animal is in its blood (Lev 17:10) and the institution of animal sacrifices is a visual aid to understand atonement - without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb 9:22). The question remains, how can the blood of a perishable lamb redeem a human, who is also perishable (Heb 9:9, 10:1,10:3) - perishable cannot inherit the imperishable. The only blood which truly has power to take away sins is imperishable blood, and if God appeared in human flesh He would have imperishable blood, which alone is sufficient to take away the sins of the world (John 1:29).
There are two important clues in the Qur'an to this. In sura 5:27 we learn that Abel's sacrifice (of blood, Gen 4:4) was accepted by God whereas Cain's sacrifice (vegetables, Gen 4:3) was not sufficient. Secondly in 37:107 we read that Abraham's son was 'ransomed by a momentous sacrifice', referring to the substitution by God of a ram instead of the boy in Gen 22:13-14. Why was it necessary for God to provide a substitute to save the boy's life? More importantly, why was the ram described as momentous (Arabic al-Azzim - this is one of the ninety-nine Names of God in the Qur'an). How could a ram be greater than a human being, unless it was a representation of an altogether greater sacrifice to come, that of Jesus Christ? (Note: the Qur'an maintains that it was Ishmael, not Isaac who was to be sacrificed. When discussing this story with a Muslim do not get sidetracked onto the issue of which of Abraham's sons was involved since this is a red herring. It is far more important to ask why the sacrifice was needed, and why a ram is described by a word that is a title of God Himself.)
5. 'Jesus was never crucified.'
In denying the Crucifixion Islam denies the very reason that Christ came to earth! This belief depends entirely on one infamous verse, sura 4:157: [The Jews said] ''We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger' - they slew him not, nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain'. However, it begs several crucial questions, not least is how Muhammad could claim that a historical event did not happen six centuries after it was recorded by many eyewitnesses.
That Jesus died on a cross and rose from the dead is beyond question from the Gospels ('When they had crucified Him' (Matt 27:35); 'With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last' (Mark 15:37); 'When they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs' (John 19:33); 'The angel said to the women, 'Do not be afraid, for I know that you were looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here....He has risen from the dead' (Matt 28:5- 7)) The last passage is especially important for Muslims, who pay particular attention to things that angels say to humans.
Extra-biblical evidence for the reality of the Crucifixion includes the pagan writers Tacitus ('Christus suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius') and Lucian the Greek ('Christians worship the crucified sage'), the Christian apologist Justin Martyr referred to the 'Acts of Pontius Pilate' (now lost, but must have chronicled the death of Jesus to have been referred to) and Jewish writers Josephus ('Pilate condemned Him to be crucified and to die....') and Babylonian Talmud ('He was crucified on the eve of the Passover'). Early Christians used the Lord's Supper and the Cross as symbols of their Master's sacrifice (I Cor 11:23) and were never in doubt about the reality of the Crucifixion.
Conventionally Muslims have maintained that a substitute man was crucified but this opens a can of worms. Usually it was said to be Judas Iscariot (impossible since he committed suicide, Matt 27:5; Acts 1:18) or Simon of Cyrene (Mark 15:21, impossible since he came from Libya and would have looked very different from Jesus). Why was it even necessary to involve an innocent substitute? Why did the crucified man not cry out that a mistake had been made? Why did Mary recognise him as her Son (John 19:26)? Why would God deceive the disciples, who, the Qur'an tells us were inspired by God and believed in Jesus (sura 5:111), into thinking that Jesus had died and risen again, since this made them realise that Jesus truly was divine ('declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord' (Romans 1:4-5)). If Jesus was not God, this deception would have caused the disciples to worship another god, which is the greatest sin (shirk) known to Islam. How could God deceive godly men into committing the most ghastly sin imaginable - He is not a deceiver! A further problem is that if the man only appeared like Jesus, perhaps the Qur'an was not even given to Muhammad but to a man who looked like him. Finally, if the substitution theory was correct, if I committed adultery I could escape judgement by claiming that I was actually sleeping with my wife, but she merely looked like another man's wife, and appeal to the Qur'an for a divine precedent.
The important thing about these criticisms and others is that they have been made by Muslims - particularly the medieval scholar Al-Razi, who wrote the 'definitive' commentarty to the Qur'an and is perhaps to Islam what Luther or Aquinas are to Christianity. Since even senior Muslims have problems with sura 4:157, what can we say? The Qur'an talks about Jesus' death in other places as a historical event, e.g. sura 3:55 'Allah said, 'O Jesus! I am taking thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me' and sura 5:117 'I [Jesus] was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast watcher over me'. The Arabic word for 'take' (ta-waffa) in these verses means 'death' in every other place in the Qur'an where it occurs, e.g. referring to the death of Muhammad in sura 10:46 ('...or whether We cause thee to die...'). In sura 19:15 God says to John the Baptist 'Peace on him the day he was born and the day he dies, and the day he shall be raised alive' and in sura 19:33 Jesus says, 'Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised to life'. Since we know that John the Baptist has died (Mk 6:14-29), surely Jesus must have done so to speak in this way.
Sura 3:169 says 'Think not of those who are slain in the way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are living', meaning that the intended effect of those who killed people in God's way was not achieved, as martyrs were remembered more as a result of their death than for their life. Sura 8:17 says that 'it was not you Muslims who slew them, but Allah did it' referring to a battle the Muslims fought and reminding them that God was sovereignly in control of the victory. Finally even the Qur'an admits that it is not impossible for Christ to have have died - 'Who can do anything against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary?' (sura 5:17). The most consistent explanation of sura 4:157 in the light of all these other verses is that the Jews were unable to boast that they had killed Jesus because God was supremely in control in allowing His Son to die on a cross!
6. 'The Qur'an contains scientific statements which prove that it was inspired by God.'
It is maintained that there are certain scientific processes described in the Qur'an which were not known at the time of Muhammad and their presence proves that the Qur'an was divinely inspired. Verses have been taken out of context and the translations twisted to try to prove these points. In addition standard textbooks written by Western scientists have been republished in Saudia Arabia with passages from the Qur'an inserted into the text at certain points to give the impression that the Qur'an is accurately describing something which was not discovered until fairly recently. The result is that most people take these claims at face value, since they do not know enough either about the true meaning of the Arabic or about possible sources of the scientific 'facts' in Muhammad's day.
Examples of these claims include verses which talk about rain falling, and others which say that there is water underground - conclusion - the Qur'an is describing the water cycle. A comparison of verses in the Bible shows that the same ideas were around long before Muhammad. Another is a verse which claims that mountains are like tent-pegs and prevent the earth from moving. Geologists are quoted as saying that mountains have 'roots' below the ground that hold the earth in place, when in reality far from preventing earthquakes, mountains are actually built up as a result of seismic activity.
Perhaps the greatest amount written by Muslims in this field concerns the development of the human embryo. Many verses describe how we originate from a drop of semen which gushes forth (sura 53:46) from 'between the backbone and the ribs' (sura 86:7). Muslims claim that the totally false idea that sperm is produced somewhere in the region of the backbone refers to the site of embryological development of the testes which is close to the kidneys - although there is no possibility of this interpretation in the context. In fact the Greek physician Hippocrates taught 1000 years before Muhammad that semen passes through the region of the kidneys and spine. Other verses say that we develop in four stages - a drop of semen, a blood-clot, a piece of chewed flesh and a stage in which bones are clothed with flesh (sura 22:5, sura 23:13). In trying to identify precise points in human development that these stages relate to, Muslim scientists have totally overlooked the fact that Galen, writing at Pergamun in Turkey (Rev 2:12) in AD 150 claimed that humans go through these four stages of development. Other examples could be given from the Qur'an and the Hadith (sayings of Muhammad) which have been twisted to try to show them saying things which have only recently been discovered. In every single case it has been conclusively demonstrated that not only were these things originally taught by the ancient Greeks, but that they were actually well known to the people in Arabia at the time of Muhammad. Far from proving that the Qur'an is divinely inspired, they provide further evidence that it had human origins.
7. 'Look at all the depravity in Christian society - Islam is pure.'
In fact the depravity is largely due to large numbers of people rejecting Christ, but many Muslims think that all Westerners are Christians, just as we are tempted to say that all Arabs are Muslims when there are many who are only culturally Muslim.
But why stop at Western society? One could argue (sensitively) that there are as many problems in Islamic societies as there are in Christian societies, except that these are often overlooked or hidden. For example of the countries at war or undergoing civil unrest almost all of them are Muslim. Corruption in Islamic countries is rife. The position of women is far more restricted than in Britain. Under Islamic law if a woman is raped she must bring four witnesses to testify to the crime in order to bring a case. If she claims she was raped but cannot produce four eyewitnesses not only is the case thrown out, but she could be flogged or even stoned to death for having effectively admitted in public to committing adultery. When statistics of violent crimes in the West are compared with those in Muslim countries and found to be much higher, is it because they do not occur in Muslim countries or that they do but people cannot produce the necessary witnesses? One could argue that polygamy was never part of God's sovereign plan and it is impossible to fully take care of more than one wife (Gen 1:27; 2:24; Deut 17:17; I Cor 7:2; I Tim 3:2). Yet the Qur'an allows up to four wives (sura 4:3) and not only did Muhammad have at least nine wives, he used to sleep with all of them in one night (Bukhari vol 7, Hadith 142). Christians are commanded to love our wives as Christ loved the Church and gave His life for her (Eph 5:25,33) whereas the Qur'an commands men to beat their wives if they do not submit to them (sura 4:34 - Arabic word literally means scourge or beat hard). One of Muhammad's wives, Aisha was only seven when he married her, and another, Zainab was originally the wife of his adopted son but was forced to marry Muhammad when he fell in love with her.
Many examples that could be given but these can have the effect of building barriers rather than bridges. It is more productive to show the teaching of Jesus, to live it out in front of your Muslim friend and to ask him what would happen to society if everybody followed His priorities. When answering any of these questions try to avoid being distracted on issues of minor importance and keep looking towards the Cross, upon which oursalvation depends. A genuine Muslim enquirer will have many questions but most of these are red herrings and prevent him from hearing about the good news of salvation through Jesus' atoning sacrifice.
It is a sad day that a teacher is demonstrated against to get a death sentence. Is this what our prophets or god wanted?
Children are innoecent in this world and they look to things that make them feel safe.
Maybe the prophet wanted to make himself known in this way and carried his message of love and hope through an object such as a teddy bear.
Is it not plain to see that the class room children wanted nothing but love and peace for something that they cared deeply about? There isn't any malice attached to these actions. A group of children have statied that Mohammed means something special to them.
We spend to far too long dictating about how people should feel and think instead of what god wants.
I believe in god - no matter what form he takes - and we all hope our children grow up in a world that is safe and free from danger and threat.
If a "god" or human leader is upset that children name their teddy bear after him / her, then I want no part of that god / person. I cant believe a higher intelligence wouldnt be nice and have a sense of humor. That goes for the Christian god also; The comandments say "thou shalt not use the name of the lord in vain" Thats one of the reasons I am aethist.
Don't worry guys. She will come out in two weeks time, write a book and become millionaire. Happy days.
This entire situation is a travesty - both from the Sudanese point of view as well as the British. When an individual moves to another country imbued in an entirely different religion and culture (especially when one takes-up a position of considerable responsibility), it is not only encumbant on the individual but also on the host government and the government of the country of origin to make available materials illuming the individual as to the customs they are expected to adhere to. It is common practice in the world of diplomacy (and I presumed when teachers signed on to teaching in foreign lands) for individuals to be given a binder filled with all sorts of information so that situations just such as this one can be neatly avoided. If this teacher was not supplied with that sort of packet then, in my opinion, as a grown, mature, professional, it was encumbant on her to educate herself on all the prevailing customs, attitudes, as well as the basic precepts of the religion. If she had shown the respect for the country that she should have OR if her government showed the respect for the Sudan that they should have, then none of this would be happening.
I think that this 'teacher' will be home shortly and that, quite honestly, is where she ought to stay.
The british give the people of Sudan Millions in aid. We should now give the NOTHING. Clearly they do not deserve our help, if they are going to treat our people this way. ...(censored)...
God made all living creatures without any bias, or else god would not had made them. The living creatures are also called species. We humans, unfortunately, don't respect other species and cosider them a lower form just because we have a few extra characteristics, such as moral conciousness, or writing skill, so that we can store and express our thoughts outside our brain. Other than these, or name a few, we are all creations of Allah. How come it is NOT ok to name an animal(a specie)MOHAMMAD, and that also a stuffed, but OK to let use the same to a human bieng (a specie)who might have demonstrated ( and demonstrating all over the world) to be the lowest form of specie in character.
The prophet peace be upon him used to be treated in a very bad way by the non-Muslims back when he was alive. They used to swear at him, they called him names and they've done so much worse and yet he didn't do anything to them but kept treating them as nicely as he could. He was tolerating all what he went through.
Now, lets assume this teacher really intended to offend our prophet, and lets assume half of the world is offending our prophet, cannot we be as tolerant as he used to be to the others?
I am buying 100 teddy bears and calling them all Muhammad. Who do you muslims think you are, to dictate to the rest of the world what you belive. God bless America.
This is a really sad day and the Sudanese Government has allowed extremists - knowingly or not - to take advantage of a situation which should have gone no further than the school governors. This has shown how intolerant Islam has become and is placing bigger barriers between this religion and other cultures. Where has everybody’s common sense gone this is quite obviously an innocent misunderstanding. At the end of the day the only people who benefiting from this situation is the extremists with the majority of moderate Muslims doing nothing. When are their eyes going to open to what is actually happening and the damage it is causing to them and Islam?
The Sudanese government is the most absurd government in the entire universe..The stupid government has so much problems to solve such as Darfur fiasco which it MESSED UP BIG TIME..
Trying to rally the population by saying this woman has insulted islam..will NOT WORK..
When will this spastic government grow up? It should be replace by school children who I am sure will do a better job in running the country..Children from the Unity High School are very welcome to put their name forward for ministirial positions and the 7 year old boy who chose the name for the teddy bear can be the presdient..
She should have known.
Deportation is appropriate.
She was never going to be lashed.
There is reasons for not idolising influential figures. This has been blown out of proportion as part of a Western crusade.
This is the sort of maligning commentary that speaks more to the character of the poster than it does to the issue at hand. No reasonable country expects subservience in return for dollar aid nor do they expect that there culture will have to be in any way diminished. Unfortunately, come people of narrow mindedness have come to associate the giving of aid with an untenable reciprocity. Sudan doesn't want British money nor Western money for that matter. It would be far worse for us if we were to lose our influence in that region of the world, particularly if disrespect were at the root of it.
"This is the sort of maligning commentary that speaks more to the character of the poster than it does to the issue at hand"
Really. Well that is intresting. If they don't want our money, they can always pay it back, but what do you think the chances are ?. I know for a fact that I speak for a good many people in the UK who are sick of Muslims coming over here and demanding this and that, then complaining that it's not enough, if you don't like it, THEN GO HOME. You want your cake and eat it too, guess what, it ain't happening.
I get it - finally! You speak for all anonymous Britain's wherever they may be. In fact, you're so certain of yourself and of your assertions that you leave no identifiable trace of your identity. Like mature and intelligent people of honor and integrity the world over you hit and run while humming; nah nah nah a boo boo! Sorry to terminate any further discussion with such a ghostly wonder such as yourself but I have a class of grown-ups to teach.
Amjad,
Wow. Great blog post & responses. Thank you.
It prompted me to blog about freedom of speach and what it means to me. And I think that simply being offended is not a reason for telling people what to say, let alone physical action. That is the slippery slope to totalitarianism and hatred.
My 2 cents worth? Moderate Muslims need to get a grip, get a sense of humour, and be strong enough in their faith to know that calling a million teddy bears Mohammed is of no consequence. Leave the rough justice to the afterlife.
And get enough of a sense of real-politic that reacting in this childish way only makes things worse. This way all you'll get is every dog/teddy bear/you-name-it in the UK and USA being called 'Mohammed'...
Actually, I do You speak for all anonymous Britain's wherever they may be,if you think I don't then go out and ask some of the British public what they REALLY think about Muslim imagrants coming here, whether you like it or not, the British are sick of being taken for a ride by people who want to live here, but also want to change it. My children are British, so please tell me why they should be forced to learn the Koran, we are NOT a Muslim state and I will tell you now, if I catch my kids reading it, I will take it and burn it. All religion is there for one purpose, to control peoples minds and lives, to keep us in our place, it's that simple. And just why do you need to teach a class of grown ups ?. Did they not learn anything as children. And as for leaving no trace of my idendity, much like those who wore masks when they killed Mr Burg. How does it feel MUSLIM
Many Sudanese people are the daily victims of extremist mentality that led to the imprisonment of Gibbons. The regime encourages this line of thought unfortunately. I and many Sudanese are displeased with what happened in The Sudan, and the matter could have been resolved amicably as it is a cultural misunderstanding. We strongly believe it was an innocent miscalculation from Ms. Gibbons side, and she been a non-muslim all doubt should have been accorded to her in utmost respect. Simply put Sudan has no place for extremism and fanaticism. It is a sad event that will be written in the history books against Sudan.
Regards,
Muaz M. Ataalsid
Webmaster/Moderator
Sudan.Net / SudanForum.Net
Hi there
After reading alot of these posts, I wanted to post another thought. I wrote a long email to this site and at the end, I said that because of all the over-reactions in the islamic world about anything we say or do in the West has given me a feeling of a true dislike of muslims and islam. But another reason for this dislike came to me when someone here said this response is childish. This response, and many other responses throughout the islamic world, including killing, burning, etc....are not even childish....it seems unwell- mentally sick...I keep thinking; 'is it possible that there is an international islamic chemical imbalance of some sort, because I can't even reationaise this reaction and behaviour'. We're trying to rationalise irrationality. Is this possible to do? This is not a case of simple cultural misunderstandings- it's a case of sickness...maybe similar to that of a cult style psychosis. Think of Jim Jones...it's the same...he asked them to drink poison and give it to their children- everyone did...for God...same thing with islam-the suicide killings, etc...for allah. We in the West are not dealing with anything we can solve by communication because it's not possible to communicate with a sick foundation of hysteria/ psychosis, unless these individuals/groups want to get help..and not be fed anymore of the extremist ideals of the koran.
But I also read some of the responses from the muslims in Sudan and around the world and atleast find a little hope....there is evidence on this site of what we are constantly fed about islam and are failing to believe anymore..that islam is loving, peaceful and forgiving..and somewhat rational. Some of these islamic responses are wonderful...if things around the islamic world could be like this, well, I wouldn't feel so unhappy and distant about anything muslim, anymore.
One last thought- who ever put that video about islam on youtube was very hurtful and I have to say that this is not freedom of speech- it is careless and in defence of individuals, what ever religion they are, it needs to get taken off the internet.
I believe that some clarification of the record is necessary and that's the only reason that I've chosen to post one additional comment. The inevitability of ignorance quickly evolving into racism is made patently obvious by the very last words of an individual who chose to hide behind the cowardly mantle of anonymity and spout racial epithets. I am not a Muslim and even if I were that ought to have made no difference as to what opinion I held fast. In fact, I'm a proud Canadian Jew now retired and living in the United States. Having roots in both democratically inclined countries and being raised as a G-d fearing, intellectually oriented human being, it has always been my focus as a person, professor, father, and card-carrying member of the human race to educate myself with regard to important issues in the world that I joyously share with so many other decent people. I choose to count all people of good-will to be amongst my respected brethren. I feel it is incumbent upon me to learn there ways just as I consider it meritorious of them to learn mine. In those instances that I agree with their perspective I say so and on those occasions that I do not - I say so as well. In both instances I give what I hope is a reasoned, considered, and compassionate point of view. In addition, I do not consider all members of a culture , religion, and/or creed to be cut from the same whole cloth. In each group there is a sub group and within that sub group there are those that I expect will not only disagree with me but will also tend to disagree with those holding a membership within the same group but in nomenclature only. I submit, nonetheless, that if one offers an erudite and considered opinion to the majority of people that, at the very least, the beginning of a basis of understanding is set forth. As I said, however, even within the group there will always be those that disagree. Just as long as those differences are based on honestly differing and considered view points, not hatred and racism and certainly not put forward anonymously - then, the world will have the starting point for an intelligent dialogue. The 'bear' or 'teddy bear' as made a household 'pet' by Theodore Roosevelt is still an animal be it cuddly by Western standards or not. It is not difficult to discern why a people who are decidedly devout with regard to there religious persuasion would choose to be offended, particularly when they know little or nothing about the anthropomorphizing of the bear. I contend that on two level this well-intended British teacher ought to have been more sensitive to the ways of the people of the Sudan. First, prior to her departure from Great Britain she ought to have , as I've said, steeped herself in the culture in which she not only intended to live but also one in which she intended to teach. Secondarily - I believe it is the responsibility of both the Sudanese and the British Government to have made sure that such literature was not only readily available to the teacher but that she understood that she had to read it prior to assuming her auspicious teaching position. None of this was done. So, from the Western point of view we see this as a supposedly harmless act of naming a cut and cuddly teddy-bear after a Great Prophet while from the Sudanese point of view we have disgraced His Great Name by associating it with an animal and a toy. I truly feel that this is an enormous misunderstanding whereby Western Muslims worldwide are embarrassed by the reaction of their brethren and Westerners are horrified by what they consider to be an over reaction by the Sudanese Muslims. Were it not for so many incidents occurring simultaneously in this conflicted world of East versus West - then this would have been an incident that would have soon blown over. However, we all know that the anger is at a fever's pitch and as such the insult was considered a penultimate issue. I, for one, hope that we'll all just take a step back and take a breath and remember that we all have to live, breath, and play in this world together and that under the very thin layer of skin we're all G-d's children.
Take a look at history, religion has caused more war than anything else, luckily this World is changing and there has been more innovation in the last 5 years than in the last 100.
There should be no place in our beautiful World for fanatical religious people.
Most normal non religious people are passive and it's always the people who want to worship something that act with force and preach.
We need to stand up to these religious freaks. They need to get an education, travel the World see how normal people live with balance.
And what about the insult to the UK and our beliefs in freedom of speech???
Its about time the islamic world started showing the same respect to others as they expect to receive themselves. The only alternative is that we show them the respect they show us and punish them in the same vain... Of course I wouldn't expect this comment to be published as we don't really have freedom of speech. We are just told that we do!!
Interesting and well thought comment drbehaviour. And while I agree with you that the best way forward is that of reasonableness and mutual respect, I fear that the 'political correctness' movement, and their attempt to appease those of any faith that insist on a right not to be offended, will result in making things worse.
The extension of this argument is that before saying or doing anything in public, the onus is on me to be an expert in the subtle sensibilities of every violent faith or political party in the world. Else, should I err and offend someone's belief in a supernatural being and what this being has supposedly instructed all humans to do, I leave myself open to real threats of physical violence, fatwas, etc. No. That's not how we run things in the secular world.
Yes, it is better if people are respectful, and generally they are, in fact, incredibly so. But a world where we all tiptoe around trying our very best not to insult anybody based on fear and threats is a horrible, horrible place. No debate, no decent music, no comedy, no art, no literature, no adult discussions to find the truth, no politics. An end to the open pursuit of knowledge.
Those who live in the west should realise that this must not be acceptable. And I'm sorry to be blunt, but IMHO the correct response to those who say that insulting any religion should be either illegal or can be justifiably met with violence is FCUK OFF! We live in a secular society, and if those of a religious bent choose to share it, fine, but get a thicker skin. If they can't stand a flow of words without resort to violence then they should leave, perhaps to Sudan or Saudi or Pakistan.
Muslims in particular who are in the west and try to force this issue will generate a backlash that will not fade, it will strengthen, as many of the comments posted here show. Mutual tolerance yes. Pandering to some new set of ‘Thought Nazis’ - No way.
Unable to accept what is perceived by you as insulting, without threats or violence? Screw you. We didn't go through the reformation, the age of enlightenment, the second world war and the swinging 60s to now be told what to say by some fairy tale written more than a 1000 years ago, ‘or else’.
Read Orwell. Read Bertrand Russell. Watch 'The Life of Brian'. Embrace the benefits of a free society and help to build on it further. Explain what you find insulting and why, yes. Protest even. Engage. Debate. Request tolerance. But don’t demand it, as if you have a right to it. You don't. If that is not acceptable, then go somewhere else and take your attempt to revert our society to the Middle Ages with you.
The answer is education. But by this I dont mean schools. I mean real education.....
The internet and satelite TV would be a great start....
Lets just drop reception equipment instead of bombs. If we spent the same amount of money doing this as has aready been spent funding the Iraq war the problem of intolerence would soon disapear. As soon as these brainwahed drones start to see what their leaders are forceing them to miss out on things will change!
Because they will want what we have.
We may not have a perfect society, but we have one thing they don't. The freedom to make choices from a far wider pool of possibility without deadly repercusions.
We can even choose to believe in an opposing view to that of our political and religious leaders; and are able to express those beliefs in public without fear of punishment from the authorities.
With a reciprocity of mutual respect and interactive dialogue all things are, as I said, possible. Tonight the teacher has been officially pardoned. I should think that in spite of the vitriol that understandings on both sides have been enhanced. See Reuters article.
Hi Amjad,
Its good to see a blog like this from a muslim (you). I fully appreciate your effort to discuss this in positive spirit with an open mind.
Hi Everybody,
Whatever happened is not only a common sense problem of some fanatics. It has its roots on palestine, iraq, oil, terrorism, violence, etc. It depicts the increasing mutual hatred between the muslims and west. And also it is because of those oppurtunistic politicians who wait for a chance to charge. I don't think those fanatics in sudan represent whole sudan population's mentality. We all know about the crisis going on in that country. With illiteracy, corruption, aids and poverty at large, the people can be easily misguided or brainwashed to become politician's or fanatic's puppets. I do understand the obvious anger from the west at this incident. But instead of letting that anger out, please put more thought to identify the causes. It is easy to disreput sudan, stop aid, filter immigrants, etc. But these superficial reactions will not solve the problems but may aggrevate the hatred. We cannot leave one part of the body to rot of disease, where other remaining parts live healthily. The world is also like this. Please think.
This blog is opened by a muslim. We should appreciate and encourage amjad like open minded persons. Please do give constructive suggestions, instead wasting this blog by spitting out our anger. Let's not offend by saying islam is bad on the whole.
I feel sad that a teacher that too a woman has been made a scapegoat in this whole drama. I deeply appologize to her on behalf of sudanese (I'm not an african or muslim).
I take it as hypocritical how Amjad can on one hand be lenient on the teacher while demanding death in the other blog for someone who wishes to convert to another religion or leave islam all together. The basic freedom of any civilized person is the freedom of choice. Anyone has the right to choose what religion they wish to belong to.
To demand death to someone who wishes to change their belief is not only ludicrous but evidence of someone who is not civilized but themselves considered barbaric. There is no room for barbarism in a civilized and modern society. Maybe back during the dark ages this belief would have been proper but we are living in the 21st century. Live and let live should be the way we live. To demand death for leaving a religion is absurd.
Its things like the teddy incident that proves there is no such thing as a "Muslim" comedian.
anonymous @10:53PM: Believe me, if Ms. Gibbons did offend or intended to offend our prophet(PBUH), I wouldn't have been lenient on her.
so Amjad would have been singing chants of death to the brit! When you come to the US, remember we have Freedom of Religion. It is our right to criticize any religion and believe what we wish without any worry of reprisal. It is a right that god has granted all of us. Leave the death chants at home!
Don't worry, I'm not going to the US for singing chants of death, lol. I'm only going there for one reason, which is to complete my higher education.
Political & religious issues will be kept aside when I'm in the US.
"if Ms. Gibbons did offend or intended to offend our prophet(PBUH), I wouldn't have been lenient on her".
So let me get this right, if she HAD ment it, you would have wanted her head ?. And you don't agree with the Ameicans, but you are happy to take full advantage of the education system in the U.S.A. So you are a part time Muslim then EH! Oh. and a hypocrite, pretty much like a lot of Muslims I have met.
Thankfully noone lost their life due to this absurd saga which is in itself unusual when the bandwagon of Islamist fanaticism and paranoid, hysterical rage starts to roll.
mashallah .. this is the 125th comment.
I have read every post (short of one, I didn't read the really, really long one, sorry wasn't interested).
Amjad, thank you for your initiative. You are the second blogger (read the first: http://last-of-iraqis.blogspot.com/) that affirms being Muslim and shows apparent open mindedness. Take no offence, "Westeners" often speak with a "forked" tongue, as some North American Natives would say. I expect that to be a "human" reality.
This issue has outraged me. No more so than the ten charicature debacle - which I never did see as I was busy with my life at the time and had absolutely none available for anything but "hearsay" (but my jaw kept on dropping as I could not believe it!!!) - so keep that in mind when presuming "everybody" should know "everything" about "everything/body else in the world!!!" at all times. How absolutely pretentious. But indeed, if Muslims believe that being bullies is the way to go to get everybody aware of their god, I admit to being saturated with "muslamship" as it is being shoved down my throat at every dawn. No offence, but it's a tat too much... remaining polite and all. I mean, I woke up from a nightmare the other day where arabs were attacking me (muslims, and I know that there are muslims across the world, but in that nightmare, they were arabs): And there is not an arab/muslim near/around me that I know! But it's everywhere!
I came to this sight through the BBC. I am Canadian. Old stock. French.
On the issue of "preparedness", also keep in mind, (mrbehavior specifically) that when moving somewhere else in the world, one may be extremely busy with preparation. Arriving there, one may be busy with work, adapting, not sleeping well, weather, people, overstimulation, understanding all other "immediate" aspects of the culture, food, water, washing, weather, etc. Mmm, culture shock some would call it. And picking up on all details, being expected to always be on "top of it all" is somewhat presumptious and not very accomodating. You moved from Canada to the States... could be extreme, but not likely... correct me if I'm wrong. Not like going from England to Sudan, surely!? Anyway, at this point in time, Mrs. Gibbons has shown herself to have very broad shoulders and a good heart. Hear, hear, Mrs. Gibbons.
Anonymous said...
"What of the other British citizens imprisoned without charge or trial in Guantanamo bay prison? (...) Many of them are Muslims, yet we say nor demand nothing for them, why shoud we expect Muslims in Sudan to behave differently to the US?"
Hugh"
November 30, 2007 7:47 PM
My comment: "They are digging their own grave" as the saying goes. Sad for the "good ones" who will also suffer along with it!
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Vincent Russell said...
"Never again will I send another nickel to a Muslim based charity. I'm done with them."
November 30, 2007 8:51 PM
Response: Neither will I, nor a Muslim country.
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Lou, New Zealander, November 30, 2007 8:52 PM
Response: I am afraid you are totally misguided by your positive prejudice following your experience in Bahrain. Putting a woman in jail for such a ludicrous reason falls far short of killing people, burning embassies, etc., for a few charicatures. Go figure!!! But, luckily, we have not all been to Bahrain. And we're not all men! Imagine putting a young women, virgin she was, in JAIL because SHE WAS RAPED by 7 men!!! (here again, mrbehavior, how do you rationalize that one?) Had she been a "woman of the night", one could be shocked but understanding... of course, she wouldn't have been raped, nor a virgin... we'll agree.
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Anonymous said...
"Listen, I think we all agree that by letting this debate take place here, Amjad has shown that the majority of people that follow the Muslim faith a good honest people."
November 30, 2007 10:05 PM
Response: Such belief are greatly misguided. Amjad shows incredible open mindedness and awareness. To some degree. This does not reflect the majority. Notice this blog, they are far more foreigners who are reacting; not Sudanese, nor Muslims (a few at best at the beginning, some arguing - who knows, other arguments could have been deleted!). And although BBC has changed its article indicating that "there is a minority who are baying for her blood" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7123517.stm), the Winnipeg Free Press says, "thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and swords and beating drums, burned pictures of her and demanded her execution" (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/story/4086904p-4685554c.html).. Thousands. This is a strong show of arms! Such a demonstration in Canada would make the news across the country. Thousands. And, notice on the video, they are ALL MEN!!! So even if "up to a thousand" as reported by an unamed British reporter (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7121025.stm) remains considerable - all for naming a teddy bear that name. Canada's population is 33M, Sudan 35M.
Amjad is 1. There are MILLIONS of Muslim across the world... and growing!
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drbehavior said...
"I get it - finally! You speak for all anonymous Britain's wherever they may be. In fact, you're so certain of yourself and of your assertions that you leave no identifiable trace of your identity. Like mature and intelligent people of honor and integrity the world over you hit and run while humming; nah nah nah a boo boo! Sorry to terminate any further discussion with such a ghostly wonder such as yourself but I have a class of grown-ups to teach." December 2, 2007 12:17 PM
Response: As far as I am concerned... you are anonymous also. Or is drbehavior a common jewish name? I fear that I will be killed because, you can bet your bottom dollar that I will never convert to Islam... so death is my only outcome from their point of view! Therefore, I will not give my name.
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Thank you Amjad. Sincerely. I mean no offence, I speak my thoughts only.
Amjad: "Believe me, if Ms. Gibbons did offend or intended to offend our prophet(PBUH), I wouldn't have been lenient on her."
You are much man, Amjad, bravely willing to step forth to punish an unarmed woman in her sixties if a sharia court in an Islamic country rules that her intent was to actually insult someone who's been dead for centuries.
Golly, if only all Muslims were as masculine as you are, you'd all sure show the world what's what and how to properly behave in no time. Be sure when you come to your American university of choice to join your campus' local Muslim organization and share your honest judgments with the rest of the members. Don'y pussy out in hiding your feelings, remember, you're willing to accept killing someone if they leave Islam so you're no doubt rock hard enough to not care what people think of you when you travel to a country where that type of thing is considered a bit of a faux pas. No doubt you will have plenty of street cred amongst your fellow Muslims since you come from a predominatly Muslim country, so be prepared to school them properly on how to be Islamically correct.
Just don't dare to act particularly shocked if the rest of the population doesn't welcome you specifically, Amjad, if they know what you think.
anonymous @ 2:52AM: Who said anything about me wanting this British teacher killed if she offended our prophet (PBUH)?
anonymous @7:25AM: It's really ironic how you first say that there is Freedom of Religion & Freedom of Expression in the USA, then you point out that part of the population will not welcome me for what I think. hmmm.. interesting!
Amjad, we know what you are and so do you. Like all Muslims, you twist the truth to suit your own needs. Liars
lol. Ironically, it's you whom is twisting the truth, not me, or "us".
You tell me there's freedom of religion & expression in USA, and yet you ask me to keep my thoughts for me when I go to USA. Honestly, I find that pretty interesting.
The controversy was also all the odder because of the long history between Islam and bears; some have argued that Winnie the Pooh himself was clearly a Muslim ...
http://www.geocities.com/ibntahhara/
Now, this is plain unacceptable. Well, maybe teachers also need to know beforehand though, but no one's to be blamed here. I really feel sorry for the loss of a school there. Too bad, the school would have served a very good purpose. Instead of being too reactive to such a mistake, well, at least people should really know that they have to prioritize the education first. I happen to have visited Emma Academy Project that will be building a school there. I really do hope that this school won't face a terrible end to this one posted here. This school intends to help the children of Sudan to have a better future.
yeah.. i remember that one..
it caused a lot of chaos in sudan..
but i guess that's what we do best.. take something that is absolutely absurd and dwell on it!
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